How to win any vaccine debate – part 1

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We’ve all heard the most common talking points of pharma-sponsored vaccine propaganda in the mainstream media, but sometimes it’s hard to conjure up the right response when the same unfounded soundbites come at you in real life.

Save this blog. And the next three parts. I’ve got your answers for you.

#1 When they say, “Scientific studies have proven that vaccines don’t cause autism!”

Then you say, “Despite what you’ve heard in the media, only one shot and one ingredient have ever been studied for their role in causing autism, and both studies are national embarrassments.”

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39 Comments

  1. Suggested edit: When they say “but mercury was taken out and autism rates rose anyway” that’s because autism rates are calculated on 8-year-olds, and THAT data isn’t released for 4 years, so the autism rate data is on TWELVE-YEAR-OLDS.

    Mercury was “taken out” supposedly in 2001 (really 2004), but the 2001 birth cohort was was the basis for the 2013 autism rate.

    Today’s autism rate would be for children born (and vaccinated) in 2005.

    Your point about flu shots is good, but this one is (in my opinion) even more important. People don’t realize the sleight of hand with autism rates. >

    Liked by 2 people

    1. This is true, but it is such a convoluted thing to explain when I’m trying to keep it short and sweet. I’ve already got to publish this in three or four parts.

      Added that is the issue of taking Aspergers out of the DSM, which will result in an artificial drop in a few years.

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    2. Thimerosal was gone from the pediatric vaccine schedule in 2002. So why hasn’t the diagnostic prevalence fallen for kids born since 2003 (they are 14 years old now).

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      1. Actually, thimerosal wasn’t gone until 2004. Pediatricians and clinics continued to use the thimerosal-preserved (and, obviously, less expensive) vaccines as long as their shelf life was good. The last of the thimerosal-preserved vaccines expired sometime in 2004. Our pediatrician was still using them.

        Add to that the fact that, in 2004, for the first time, flu shots began to be recommended for all children over 6 months. Prior to that year, they were had ONLY been recommended for children with asthma and other medical predispositions to complications from influenza.

        Thimerosal was never eliminated from flu shots. In just the last few years, an increasing number of thimerosal-free flu shots have been made available, but even today, fully half of the only flu shots currently approved for children under the age of 3 are in thimerosal-preserved, multi-use vials.

        In addition, big-box store pharmacies, grocery chain pharmacies, and clinics almost always use the less expensive thimerosal-preserved (LESS EXPENSIVE) multi-use vial flu shots, not the more expensive pre-loaded single-use syringes.

        To further complicate things, the same year that the vaccine manufacturers stopped manufacturing thimerosal-preserved pediatric vaccines for US use (they still make and send them to developing nations), the CDC began to add several new aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines to the pediatric schedule.

        In 2001, for instance, Prevnar was added, requiring 4 doses in the first year of life. That increased the number of shots given to infants by a significant 25%.

        Since aluminum is not only a heavy metal, but has been linked with autoimmune and inflammatory reactions, we have to ask why this, too, has never been subjected to robust safety studies for the relevant age group, including long-term health outcomes.

        (I hope that wasn’t too long an answer!)

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      2. Aluminum is not a heavy metal. Heavy metals are defined as metallic elements that have a relatively high density compared to water. The density of aluminum is 2.7 g/cc, not even three times that of water. While there is no widely agreed upon term for heavy metal, scientists can agree that there are ten characteristics. Aluminum has three. Instead of worrying about the lengths of your posts, pay more attention to their veracity.

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      3. Because just plain vaccine encephalitis can do severe damage to the language and social centers of the brain. AKA autism. Any vaccine can cause it, when the immune system reacts with more than the desired amount of inflammation, the inflammation causes the brain to swell, cutting off circulation, and does stroke-like brain damage. The symptoms in infants being constant, inconsolable screaming for three hours or more (in my infant it was 16 hours a day for four days and nights), blank staring episodes (petit mal seizures), and/or extreme drowsiness. The last two hard to spot in a baby. That’s why both stroke victims and autism victims have a very hard time understanding or using speech to communicate. Since 2002, they added the yearly flu vaccine, the hep-A, Prevnar, and Menactra to the recommended schedule. In addition to the Hib vaccine in 1990, the hep-B vaccine in 1991, the varicella vaccine in 1994, Gardasil in around 2000, and rotavirus (the first in 1999, quickly withdrawn because of vaccine damage, and later a new version). And those were in addition to polio and the still dangerous DTaP and the always dangerous MMR.

        So it’s just wham, wham, wham, all the time, to the delicate developing immune and neurological systems of the baby or child. Of course a lot of them succumb to vaccine damage.

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  2. Indeed. Tell them that are no coincidences. Especially in D.C. Just examine the timing of the introduction of the “Eli Lilly” rider attached to the Homeland Security Bill in 2002. The go and examine the U.S. District Court decision by Judge Weinstein in Wax v. Aventis, et al. The case versus Thimerosal was “stayed” pending resolution in USCFC ( Vaccine Court). This was the first time that a case ( headed for class-action status) was “stayed”. The case was only “dismissed” after the U.S Congress added the provisions to protect the preservatives too. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Phrma did not want to end up in any trial where there was discovery and a jury to contend with. The Omnibus Autism hearings were a farce. The fix was already in. Pnrma lawyers will whitewash events like this all they want. But, the American people are not as stupid as they would have you believe. If you need data to support the maximum number of micrograms that a child in that case might have received if all the vaccinations were from “multi-dose” vials, just do the math. The shills at Simpsonwood knew the danger and said so about their own grandchildren’s potential for harm.

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  3. An antigen is anything which can provoke an allergic response, and that is EVERY vaccine ingredient, not just the weakened or killed disease antigens. Anything can sensitize the immune system to it so that it reacts in future with an autoimmune response to it or a substance closely resembling it (cross-reactivity). Anything injected can cause an allergy. If you accidentally inject one molecule of the plastic wrapper the syringe was in, you can create an allergy to that plastic. And that molecule would be an antigen.

    And autism can be caused by mercury (maybe aluminum too), or it can be caused by vaccine encephalitis. Every vaccine causes inflammation to make the body take appropriate steps to neutralize the perceived threat of the injected material. Some produce more inflammation than others, it involves the brain (and GI tract), and causes encephalitis (brain swelling) and bowel disease. The swollen brain cuts off blood circulation to crucial areas of the brain, especially the language and social centers), it causes stroke-like damage, and the result is autism. The MMR has no mercury, but it has always caused autism. The earlier the vaccine(s) are given, the use of combination vaccines, and the huge number given routinely now, all contribute to the exponential increase of autism now. Even without mercury, although Heaven knows, mercury did extreme and permanent damage to millions still suffering from it, and continues to do so in the case of mercury-containing flu vaccines and “trace amounts,” which add up to a lot if you store it in the brain and it accumulates over the years.

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  4. I like to smile and politely say “there is no liability on vaccines”–then wait. Let it sink in. Then you can say, “Would you buy a van where the manufacturer didn’t offer liability?” And wait. Or ask something like, “Why do you think the manufacturers of vaccines won’t stand behind their products?” If there is no liability, then the science can pretty much say whatever it wants to say, can’t it? Excellent article sir.

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  5. Thank you for this! One point people bring up to me is that we ingest far more of these additives than they inject in a vaccine. When I share about the differences of injection vs ingesting them it’s like crickets. But, but, but. (Insert eye roll) I hope you touch on this in one of the next articles.

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    1. The digestive, respiratory, and urogenital systems were designed to be open and capable of taking in substances from the outside world (food, water, air). They have filters to filter out potentially harmful substances before they can get into the closed systems (circulatory system and brain). They also send out an early alert in the case that some of the potentially harmful substance gets past the filter and into the bloodstream, so the immune system can muster its forces to receive it. Of course some germs get through and make you sick, but not as sick as you would have been without this natural protective system. Ig (immunoglobulin) A coats the mucosal surfaces of the body as a first defense to kill invading pathogens which land on them.

      Injections put the harmful substances directly into the body, where they are almost immediately absorbed into the bloodstream, where they set off last-ditch alarms in the immune system. Immunoglobulin G forms the largest part of the antibodies used as immunologic defense in the bloodstream. This is not used as a first defense, but as a last-ditch one, used only at moments of utmost peril to life. And that is what is called up when foreign substances are injected straight into the body. And all the substances injected have a fast track to the vital organs, bypassing all the filters normally in place.

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  6. Hi,
    I enjoy your blog. Thank you for what you do. One question.
    You said:
    “Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, the lead author of the CDC’s 2003 mercury-doesn’t-cause-autism study, sounded the alarm when he found that mercury-based thimerosal preservative was causing a 760% increase in autism prevalence. ”

    And you link to a short blurb about the study, with access to the actual study requiring payment. I googled the study and found a .pdf. But I can’t find any mention of a 760% increase in Autism in children exposed to Thimerosal. In fact the whole study concludes no link whatsoever between Autism or neuro-developmental disorders.

    I didn’t read it word for word though. Can you help me locate this specific “760% increase” citation? I would really appreciate it.
    Thanks.
    Billie.

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      1. Yes I would like that. I see the reference to Verstraeten’s “original analysis” showing “thimerosal exposures increased autism risk by 760%”, and that the CDCs response was the notorious Simpsonwood conference back in 2000, written about and referred to by Robert Kennedy. But the study you reference says no such thing, naturally. The study you reference is dated 2003. I imagine Verstraeten’s “original analysis” is not too easily found. The wikipedia entry about the Simpsonwood Conference states that Kennedy’s article contained numerous major factual errors and was withdrawn from Salon. I’ve read Kennedy’s article, but never the actual transcript. I’m anti-vaccine, but where does he get this “760%”?
        The actual transcript his here:
        http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/media/2.9.pdf
        I suppose I’ll have to read it, but a quick search for the mention of the word Autism indicates that they only refer to the study with words like “statistically significant.”
        I’m just wondering. I’m totally on your side, but I think your article is undermined by this reference. And when I look for verification, I can only find verbal references to this statistic. It’s a bit of a wormhole.

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  7. I’m sharing on facebook. I lose friends for stuff like this, but the people I convince are worth it, the sheeple can go follow each other.

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  8. Thanks for this. I’m ashamed to say that I’m pretty cowardly when it comes to debating or even discussing vaccines with most people.

    I have a lot of opinions and views about many different issues that most people would consider pretty conspiratorial, but the few times I have had people attack me by saying some really horrible, abusive things has been over the vaccine issue. Unfortunately, in my case debating the issue has not been worth it so I leave that to people more brave, articulate and persuasive than I am.

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  9. Once again my blogger crush you have nailed it. This is going in our files to help newbies learn how to talk to others. Can’t wait for part 2.

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  10. I love this, complete with resource links! I look forward to part two. Here is my problem, I’m hoping you can address. I’m a mom of four, oldest child fully vaxxed till age three then gut started saying stop and do the research. I could always go back if research said it was all safe but too many red flags since then, so no more pokes, and I continue to research as much as possible. I come from a veterinary medical background, equivalent to an RN in people, college degree. One argument that I hear anti-vaxxers say is “when was the last time you heard of someone dying, or getting sick from (insert any vaccine illness, like measles) It’s doesn’t happen!” My problem with this is because many of the diseases aren’t around any longer due to vaccines! You can’t deny that we don’t see chicken pox, measles, or parvovirus or distemper in the dog community like we used too. I don’t like vaccines, I think the hype put on many of these seemingly benign illnesses is a scare tactic, but if my child died or wasn’t permanently injured from one of these diseases, I wouldn’t think vaccines were so bad. Please anti-vaccine community, stay away from this argument point. Continue to push that those that do want to vaccinate should be fighting for safer vaccines right along side us. Unless Mr Quackenboss, you can tell me how this arguement isn’t valid and what to say in return!?!? Because I really struggle with this. Thank you!!!! (I hope this wasn’t to long…)

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    1. The answers are disease specific. I address some of them under the second set of red arrows in my herd immunity piece.

      ‘According to the official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, the major decline in child mortality that occurred from 1900 to 1930 (predating widespread use of vaccines, which became popular after WWII) was due to “improved socioeconomic conditions” and “public health strategies.”

      For stopping diarrheal disease, methods included water treatment, food safety, organized solid waste disposal, and public education about hygienic practices. For person-to-person airborne disease, they cite improved housing and decreased crowding.

      “Thus vaccination does not account for the impressive declines in mortality seen in the first half of the century…nearly 90% of the decline in infectious disease mortality among US children occurred before 1940, when few antibiotics or vaccines were available.”

      Starting in 1945, it was the widespread use of a new antibiotic called penicillin that caused the drastic drop in deaths from secondary infections.’

      https://leviquackenboss.wordpress.com/2017/10/02/lets-talk-about-herd-immunity/

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    2. You have made a good point. Some of the diseases used to truly be killer diseases, and some might be again if they came back. And I’m basically anti-vaccine as well. Since my daughter reacted to the hep-B vaccine at birth with vaccine encephalitis and to the DTaP booster with having her only words erased and being diagnosed with autism two months later, I have read a lot about vaccines and VPDs. Everyone must research these issues for him or herself, but I’ll tell you what I think at this time. I think the tetanus series is a good idea for most children over two. While it can be dangerous, it usually is not, especially if it’s unhooked from the pertussis vaccine. Tetanus is a terrible disease, and always possible: the spores are everywhere in the environment. Good wound care IS important and will prevent most cases of tetanus, but about half of cases are from minor wounds or even wounds that the person was unaware of, like rose thorns or a splinter. High-dose IV vitamin C WILL treat tetanus effectively. In the US you can no longer get the T by itself, but you can get the dT (or DT for young children). Once the child gets the kindergarten booster, he probably doesn’t need to get a booster for forty years, much longer than the ten years they usually say. Diphtheria is another terrible disease: my mother had a neighbor when she was a child who got and died horribly of diphtheria, even though his parents called in every doctor in town. It’s largely a disease of poverty, but I wouldn’t bank on that if it came back anywhere in the US. It came back in the late ’80s and early ’90s in the ex-Soviet Union, and it killed thousands. And it spread to Australia and New Zealand. It can be treated with antibiotics and vitamin C if treatment is started soon enough. Both tetanus and diphtheria can come on hard and kill quickly.

      To me it’s clear that the polio vaccine (either one of them) really did work and really did stop the polio epidemics of the first half of the twentieth century. It’s not popular to say that at this time, but I believe that was a triumph which Salk and Sabin could be proud of. In most cases, what looked like polio was polio, especially in an epidemic and especially when it caused paralysis. At this time I wouldn’t recommend the vaccine in the US because there’s no longer any polio here, but if it came back, I’d recommend that parents consider it. Only a tiny number of the population got a clinical case of it, even fewer a paralyzing case, and in even fewer was it permanent, so it’s another decision for the parents. I had a roommate who had been crippled by polio, and had to use a wheelchair or crutches and braces. Now, decades later, she can no longer use the crutches and braces, but is confined to a wheelchair.

      The Hib vaccine is one I’d recommend parents consider at four months old (not two), but only for babies in daycare and/or not breastfed. Most adults have achieved subclinical immunity to all local strains of meningitis. The women can protect their babies with their antibodies, and this protection continues for years after breastfeeding ends. HIb disease was not a big problem before the DPT was introduced in 1948, but the DPT suppresses immune function, and Hib became a bigger and bigger problem until 1968, when it was four times more common than in 1940. It was treatable with antibiotics until the ’80s, when antibiotic resistance meant that children were once again dying of Hib disease (not just Hib meningitis). One in 200 young children was getting a clinical case, all of them serious, and one in 1,000 babies was dying of it. The Hib vaccine wiped out Hib disease in just a few years. It also started the peanut allergy epidemic (see Heather Fraser’s book). Sometimes it causes autism, diabetes, or other serious conditions, but to me Hib disease was a serious enough threat that in some cases the vaccine is a good idea. But yes, you’re taking your chances. After 18 months it would no longer be needed.

      Pertussis and measles were extremely serious diseases, killing tens of thousands of children a year in the nineteenth century. But in addition to better nutrition and living conditions, the diseases themselves mutated to less virulent forms, until they had become usually relatively mild, routine diseases of childhood. Chickenpox was always a very mild disease and they should not have developed a vaccine for it. Measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox were actively beneficial diseases for children to get, improving immune function and protecting against serious diseases in later life, including cancer.

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  11. I’m usually not a consistent blog reader but I think I’ll have to start reading yours. I get asked these questions a lot and never know what to say. I do pretty well with just sticking to the inserts and assert that even the manufactures admit these side effects but I think knowing this information will help me a lot more. Thank you for the well written post and all the source links!

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  12. “Did you read his medical board’s decision? Because fraudulent work was never an allegation against Dr. Wakefield.”

    No, you say he was exonerated of medical misconduct.

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  13. My standard replies to Dr. Wakefield are:

    1. “But he wrote, ‘We did NOT prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described.’ Do you mean to say you did not actually read the paper before commenting??”

    2. “But the High Court overturned the decision in 2012.” Which leads to a conversation about Dr. Walker-Smith, and no-one has been able to produce a retort to that, ever.

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  14. I love your work Levi, but your approach here is forlorn.

    You can’t fight them by just endlessly responding to one fact after another because no matter what they will just come up with more studies and more facts – they control the “science” and will always be able to write papers concluding they are right.

    What pro-vaxers cannot do is make their beliefs coherent.

    A pro-vaxer cannot explain why it is that we should visit a doctor to get a vaccine to protect us from sick people when, visiting doctors clearly means surrounding ourselves with sick people and presumably also endangering ourselves and others. All the studies in the world won’t resolve this conundrum.

    A pro-vaxer cannot explain why it is that the polio, measles, HOV, Hep B, varicella viruses (supposedly) all infect us chronically (meaning that harbouring the virus makes us more susceptible to it in the future) but at the same time we should vaccinate for it because harbouring the virus will make us “immune” to it (ie less susceptible to it in the future.

    Obviously immunity and chronic infection are mutually exclusive.

    A pro-vaxer cannot demonstrate that doctors never use vaccine status to differentially diagnose patients.

    Pro-vaxers can come up with all the empirical data in the world, but they can’t come up with a logical case for vaccines.

    Actually there is one piece of empirical data they can’t come up with – a stress test (which is the only valid method to prove safety of any product). Ask them to take the weight adjusted dose of the infant schedule (which is similar to what a proper stress test of vaccines would be).

    When you ignore their “facts” and “studies” and instead focus on logic they are all at sea – not only can they not keep on attacking you with one “fact” after another, everything they say just makes them look increasingly stupid.

    Think of it like defending a castle. You can keep on deflecting the attacks but at some point your walls will be broken or you will be starved out unless you can use your position to inflict damage on those attacking you such that they will be forced to retreat.

    Attacking the idea that a) vaccines work; b) they even answer the right question; and c) demonstrating that those who claim they are safe are extreme hypocrites and cowards puts them in a very stressful position. They won’t change their minds – they are too brainwashed for that – but they will be reluctant to bring the issue up in the future.

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